Table Finder
The tables have turned on Di ‘Urindanger’ Dang at Fulltilt’s virtual felt this month as one of online’s most feared players has taken a close to $1m turn for the worst.
The tables have turned on Urindanger and various other pros put in some serious hours at the $200/$400 CAP PLO tables on Thursday night as he racked up a massive 5,111 hands in an effort to claw back some losses from the last few weeks, but once again he was left clutching at straws as he dropped $378k throughout the monster 20 hour session in which Tom ‘durrrr’ Dwan and FakeSky came out on top as the biggest winners with $431k and $133k wins respectively.
Urindanger had a terrible start to the month when he ran in to some costly encounters with Alexander ‘PostflopAction’ Kostritsyn, who has been on a massive heater, when their heads-up PLO games sunk Urindanger $682k over 3.3k hands and resulted in him setting a personal ‘worst day’ record of -$521k on Thursday 4th February.
Given his track record, I think it’s safe to say he has just caught a bad case of ‘variance’ this month which was probably about due as he has steadily ground over $3.5m since early September ‘09 and has earned a staggering $5.9m on fulltilt alone since the beginning of 2007. I’m guessing only a few more 20 hour sessions will see his winnings returned with interest.
Tags: Alexander Kostritsyn, Di Dang, durrrr, PLO, Postflopaction, Tom Dwan, Urindanger
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His luck will turn. Impressive that he can play 20 hour sessions, thats what makes the great players great.
Losing 378k in a 20 hour session..”that’s what makes the great players great”?? If I had the money, I could probably lose more in the same time. I must be REEAAAL good!
the difference, smartass, is that he WON those 378k and much more before. where as u are probably breaking even at microlimits
ownd
It is deffinately not a question of his skill , it is simply rigged ass fulltilt. I absolutely hate that site!! really!!! I have read up on ” negative statistical variance ” and I believe it is these pokersites covering their own asses . I have read about these random number generators they use for online poker…..they are the most unrandom thing there is. There is a ” code ” if you will to cracking these programs , and I am quite sure they are in use alot more than people want to admit . Software decoding programs will become more and more prevailant in the future attempts of cheaters and scoundrels to cheat other players out of thier money . frankly I am so fed up with online poker I have to vent here or I might break my laptop. shame on Howard and the rest for ruining what used to be a surefire moneymaker for the skilled player , now it is nothing more than a freakshow poker carnival for any nit to capitolize off of the misfortunes of the numerically unlucky…….thanx i feel better now going back to play gl ev1
phillyred are you stupid?
i must be if you think so
you think its rigged –> you keep your fingers away–>you’re smart
you think its rigged–>you dont keep your fingers away–>you’re a retard
As a software engineer, let me just say that there is so much wrong with phillyred’s post that I won’t even bother rebutting the technical points here. But I’m sure I didn’t need to tell anyone else that…
I find it interesting that the majority players who are winning players feel its rigged in one way or another. Yet its the losing donks who refuse to believe its possible.
What a joke comment, “As a software engineer”…. blah blah. Just look at the new rush poker at fucktilt, the program moves thousands of players in a snap to another table to deal them a hand. This goes on 24/7. Doing this is much harder than rigging the program to deal monster vs monster, or to keep having flopped sets losing at a higher rate than any live player knows to be possible.
So if you win know you are beating the players and these sites. And if you lose which most do, know you cant even beat a game rigged in your favor. But then that is why losing donks are so strong in their belief its all legit. They cant accept the fact they such so bad they cant even beat players with the sites help.
For every self confessed expert computer programmer telling everyone it couldn’t possibly be rigged, there is another who says the exact opposite. I have been a member of a forum where computer experts have told us how it could be rigged. That doesn’t mean they said it it is, they just said how it would be possible. Given what sites can do now they do appear to have very sophisticated programmes to do all sorts of stuff. They proudly tell us how they can spot traits and tendencies to weed out bots or unfair practices.
Bottom line is what you experience. I have been playing seriously for 12 years live. The winning players I play with consider it pretty obvious it’s rigged. Over a year I took my own stats. One of the stats I took was the number of times I was all in heads up as 70 per cent favourite. I lost 65 per cent of those. It was enough to convince me not to play for anything online except micro stakes and fun. My stats don’t prove anything to anyone except myself. If anyone who is a winning player suspects the odds are not true odds I would urge them to do their own stats so they can see for themsleves. Their results may be different. The main thing is those in doubt should just prove it to themselves for their own satisfaction.
tard festival
Keep up the good work Howie
Not trying to start anything, and maybe I’m showing my ignorance, but why would the sites rig the games since they make there money from the rake no matter who wins?
Well…I mean…in theory it would be because they get a percentage of the pot and not a flat fee. Juicy cards (sets over sets, swings in the nut hand) make for larger pots = a larger take for the good ole’ rake. The squirrel makes a compelling argument. I’m not always sure which side of this issue I sit on. Problem is, I’m profitable enough in the long run at smaller stakes to think maybe it’s all kosher, but don’t feel nearly the hand stability that I feel in live card rooms. If you have doubts, best to play small and use online poker as a way to improve and keep fresh.
@luvdoinit
“I find it interesting that the majority players who are winning players feel its rigged in one way or another. Yet its the losing donks who refuse to believe its possible. ”
I don’t normally feed the trolls but wth, I’ll bite.
First, what do you know of my winrate? I love it when people try to call out losing players. If you’re looking up this screen name, you’d notice I’ve played very few hands and none recent to speak of. If you know my other screen names, you’d find that I wasn’t a losing player overall and in fact ended 2009 up several thousand despite relatively few hands played only over half the year. But that’s beside the point here…
As a “software engineer” I never said rigging was impossible, duh. Of course rigging is possible. I responded specifically to the points presented by phillyred as to being technically ludicrous, which they were. I’m not “self professed” either, I’ve been in this career for 25+ years and have the accomplishments to prove it, not that I need to prove it to any of you. So yeah, I know a little bit about which I speak.
I find it very odd that people are stating that “most winning players think it’s rigged while most losing players think it’s legit.” What Twilight Zone are you guys in? Do you even know any winning players? I know a lot of ‘em, and virtually none thing it’s rigged, while most losing players (especially newbies) assume its rigged from the start.
So, rigging is possible, but is it logical? Hell no. End of the day, it makes no business sense to rig online poker. The money being made is astronomical just from playing fair, it would be business suicide to tamper with that formula. And you people running stats and saying you’re losing 65% of your 70% favorite spots… over what sample size? Numerous studies have been done, analyzing millions of online hands, and statistically they have matched up with live stats. Over my own sample size, I’ve run analysis over the major spots and mine also line up with live stats. All the common rigged theories have been debunked time and again, yet like any conspiracy theory you have those who refuse to believe the evidence and continue to present false arguments or challenges to prove a negative.
Not sure what game you guys are playing or at what sample sizes, but go on believing it’s rigged while still playing. What does that say about you? LOL…
D morris I am not a losing player and in reality it probably isn’t rigged . I saw this article and was pissed and wanted to talk some shit and it’s funny how everyone gets so worked up…..mission accomplished . I have a played a couple hands myself on fulltilt and have noticed in my own experience that the best hand pre flop rarely holds up , I am aware it would be dumb for fulltilt to ” rig ” thier software as they make so much money . But as a software engineer you should already know that the software is ” pre-tweeked ” so to speak . I am by no means technically correct but i know what i have seen and I have played a decent sample , tournies mostly i have put in around 45k ring hands as well…..any way i was probably upset and not giving out software engineering tips i was venting for myself and anyone else put on tilt and maybe i was a little hard on Howard he will get over it!! lol i love cards and hate to lose ” Show me a good loser , and I’ll show you a loser ” ……Stu Ungar rip
and lol @ feed the trolls i take no shots at anyone’s credibility and make no assumtions on anybody’s skill level , just cause of the stakes they play or what they think thier skill level is . I have played live poker quite a bit , in fact that is how i have supported myself in the past . I am also aware that anyone who reads what is being said here will see there is a common theme…no one trusts online poker . I only deposited one time and have been grindin money out of fulltilt ( at the micro level ) so when i experience significant periods of ” statistical variance ” it really makes me wonder what is wrong……and being a male i am never wrong , so immediately i look for a scape goat or some way to rationalize my unrationalizatiion . Please don’t think i put any trust in any of these sites , i am basically just wondering why the random number generators seem to produce so much crazyness , yea i have heard ” that’s poker ” but online poker seems less like poker and more like cards or more randomness than naturally allowed . I enjoyed reading your posts though morris….who doesn’t like reading educated reason?? thanx i wish you nothing but good luck and success…… unless we are opponents lol tc gl ev1
phillyred, please know my “feed the trolls” comment was not directed at you, but at others who were taking shots at me for pointing out the flaws in your post. I appreciate a good debate, and had no beef with you other than disagreeing with your points and noting them. I don’t generally argue with the typical internet e-thug 12yo mentality posters, hence my reluctance to “feed the trolls.” But sometimes my tilt gets the better of me. :)
No worries mate, your beliefs about online poker are not stupid IMO, they’re just misguided. Everything I’ve personally seen and researched about online poker leaves overwhelming evidence to support the conclusion that it’s fair. The problem is that the volume is so different between online and live play that people overract to statistical clustering over relatively small samples to try and support the rigged theory. Look over 1-2m+ hands and you’ll see that the occurrences of AA being cracked, or sets being topped or flushed, are pretty much in-line with live numbers. There are just so many more logical arguments against it being rigged, but once people convince themselves there’s often no budging them.
RNG’s are a funny beast. I’ve written a few over my career, and random number theory is a science unto itself. People always want to point fingers at the RNG, but would be surprised to learn that almost any decently-written RNG is far more “random” than a typical human dealer who manually shuffles a physical deck of cards could ever be. When you take into account the entropy values and methods (like client mouse movements, network packet latency, time of day to the millisecond, etc.) used to seed modern RNGs, you’ll see that it’s virtually impossible for them to ever be predictable to any practical (or even possible) degree. Combine that with the fact that FullTilt uses a constant shuffle — unlike PokerStars which uses a set deck — and their deals are going to be even more distributed, yet FT gets far more accusations of “rigging” than PS seems to. BTW most people don’t even realize that about FT vs PS, they assume the flop they see on FT after they’ve folded is the same flop they would have seen if they stayed in the pot, which is not true. So for those two reasons alone FT’s deal is way more “random” than a typical human dealer could be. The only way to corrupt that would be through intentional (or grossly negligent) software design, which brings us back to the question about intentional rigging by the poker sites, which again is highly illogical from a business perspective. Especially in light of cheating scandals at UB/AP (which were due to software exploits by employees and former employees, not due to intentional software “rigging”).
Also, all major poker sites have their RNGs and dealing algorithms audited and certified by 3rd parties, something else that seems lost on or ignored by most of the conspiracy theoriests. I could go on, but there’s really no point. People will believe what they want to. I’ll just go on playing and (hopefully) winning, although FR lately is beating the hell out of me. I should have stuck to MTTs. Or I guess I could just blame the rigged software…
Oh, and another argument against intentional rigging: FT is largely, if not completely, owned by poker pros. Do you believe Lederer, Gordon, Ivey, and the like would knowingly found and back a poker site they knew to be cheating? It’s not like they wouldn’t have either inside knowledge of that fact, or hear of it from their fellow pros. And I don’t just mean internet pros, but those who crushed the live games years before the internet poker boom. Cheating/rigging a game is anathema to most any legit poker pro, even most degenerates have a sense of honor for the game.
lol sweet post ….I needed that it was like a firendly , intelligent kick in the ass . Yes I agree with you 99.999% . I have always been a bit of a ” conspiracy theorist ” or maybe just down rite untrusting . I really appreciate your standpoint and insight , so rare at times . I also read an article that says the company that tests fulltilt’s rngs did a 100 million hand study …out of 100 million hands 30% went to showdown , of the 30% , the best hand preflop won only half the time. this supports nor negates anything , I just found those figures interesting. Playing live poker is my true love , online is like art imitating life to me . Again I thank you for posting , i even feel smarter now…..I look forward to reading informative stuff like what you’ve written. peace and best wishes morris
best preflop = loser at showdown is logical, just like AA is “win a small pot, lose a big one”. If you have good cards, and make a good hand, then usually the villain will fold rather than pay you off. If you have “bad” (relatively) cards, and don’t make a good hand you fold. So the best hand preflop (or a bluff) wins the pot 70% of the time without a showdown. A leak in my game (so I assume it in others) is that I refuse to believe that my great cards are beaten, even when they don’t make a good hand, and I pay off the lesser hole cards that made a better hand at showdown. Even if only 5/7ths of the non-showdown hands are won by the best starting cards then the best starting cards are 65/35 to win.
you two guys are too funny for me.