Table Finder
After being tipped off by this thread on 2+2, PTR has used its bot detection technology to find overwhelming evidence that 10 accounts on PokerStars are being run by computer programs (and not humans). Collectively, they have played at least 8,320,121 hands at the $.25/$.50, $.5/$1 and $1/$2 NL levels, generated $186,572 in rake, and made $57,839 in profit (not including VIP benefits). These accounts are still active and have been observed playing on PokerStars today.
After being tipped off by this We urge PokerStars to freeze their accounts immediately.
The following 10 accounts stand accused:
| 7emenov | bakabar | craizer |
| mvra | nakseon | kozzin |
| demidou | koldan | Daergy | feidmanis |
UPDATE: All 10 of these accounts have been frozen by Poker Stars and are no longer active.
Background
In the initial 2+2 thread, Malloc took screenshots from PTR and noted the shocking statistical similarities and consistency in the way 3 accounts moved up and down in stakes. PokerTableRatings has decided to help the effort by analyzing our data. We have found 10 separate accounts that showed remarkable similarities based upon three major factors.
• Extremely similar stats across the board.
• A changing of stakes played on exactly the same day or within a few days of each other.
• A unique and easily identifiable betting pattern from the big blind in unraised pots.
The Evidence
Statistical Similarities
Each of these accounts has essentially the same stats across the board. These stats are much too similar to be explained by mere chance. Here is a table showing the remarkably similar stats for each account. This data can be seen by anyone using PTR Premium.
|
7emenov
|
bakabar
|
craizer
|
mvra
|
nakseon
|
kozzin
|
demidou
|
koldan
|
Daergy
|
feidmanis
|
|
| VP$IP |
9.04
|
9.03
|
9.00
|
8.99
|
9.01
|
8.93
|
9.00
|
8.95
|
8.94
|
8.88
|
| PFR |
8.99
|
8.98
|
8.95
|
8.95
|
8.96
|
8.88
|
8.96
|
8.90
|
8.89
|
8.82
|
| 3Bet |
7.06
|
6.94
|
7.02
|
7.10
|
7.05
|
6.92
|
6.97
|
7.23
|
6.89
|
6.58
|
|
7emenov
|
bakabar
|
craizer
|
mvra
|
nakseon
|
kozzin
|
demidou
|
koldan
|
Daergy
|
feidmanis
|
|
|
Small Blind VP$IP
|
21.3
|
21.2
|
21.3
|
21.4
|
21.4
|
21.3
|
21.0
|
21.3
|
21.0
|
20.4
|
|
Big Blind VP$IP
|
19.1
|
19.1
|
18.9
|
18.8
|
19.1
|
18.9
|
19.1
|
19.0
|
18.8
|
18.9
|
|
Early VP$IP
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.2
|
|
Middle VP$IP
|
4.5
|
4.4
|
4.5
|
4.5
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
|
Cutoff VP$IP
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.5
|
6.4
|
6.3
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.5
|
6.5
|
|
Button VP$IP
|
9.8
|
9.7
|
9.8
|
10.0
|
9.8
|
9.4
|
9.8
|
9.8
|
9.7
|
9.5
|
|
Small Blind PFR
|
21.2
|
21.1
|
21.2
|
21.3
|
21.3
|
21.2
|
21.0
|
21.2
|
21.0
|
20.3
|
|
Big Blind PFR
|
18.9
|
18.8
|
18.6
|
18.5
|
18.8
|
18.6
|
18.8
|
18.8
|
18.5
|
18.6
|
|
Early PFR
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.2
|
|
Middle PFR
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.5
|
4.5
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
|
Cutoff PFR
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.5
|
6.4
|
6.3
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.5
|
6.5
|
|
Button PFR
|
9.8
|
9.7
|
9.7
|
9.9
|
9.7
|
9.4
|
9.7
|
9.8
|
9.7
|
9.4
|
|
Small Blind 3bet
|
8.3
|
8.1
|
8.4
|
8.4
|
8.3
|
8.1
|
8.1
|
8.7
|
8.0
|
7.6
|
|
Big Blind 3bet
|
12.6
|
12.4
|
12.3
|
12.5
|
12.3
|
12.3
|
12.5
|
12.9
|
12.4
|
11.6
|
|
Early 3bet
|
2.6
|
2.7
|
2.4
|
2.8
|
2.3
|
2.2
|
2.1
|
2.8
|
2.9
|
2.6
|
|
Middle 3bet
|
3.1
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.1
|
3.1
|
3.1
|
3.0
|
3.2
|
3.1
|
3.1
|
|
Cutoff 3bet
|
3.9
|
3.8
|
3.8
|
3.9
|
3.8
|
3.7
|
3.9
|
3.9
|
3.7
|
3.6
|
|
Button 3bet
|
4.8
|
4.6
|
4.8
|
5.1
|
4.8
|
4.7
|
4.6
|
4.9
|
4.6
|
4.8
|
|
Saw Flop
|
5.1
|
5.0
|
5.0
|
5.1
|
5.1
|
5.0
|
5.1
|
5.1
|
5.0
|
5.2
|
|
Flop Agg. Frequency
|
34.1
|
34.3
|
33.9
|
34.4
|
34.3
|
33.6
|
33.9
|
34.3
|
35.3
|
32.5
|
|
Flop Fold %
|
92.9
|
91.8
|
92.1
|
91.1
|
92.2
|
92.9
|
92.0
|
91.9
|
91.7
|
93.4
|
|
Flop Call %
|
0.0
|
0.1
|
0.0
|
0.5
|
0.0
|
0.1
|
0.0
|
0.3
|
0.1
|
0.0
|
|
Flop Bet %
|
25.9
|
26.1
|
25.7
|
25.8
|
25.4
|
25.7
|
25.7
|
25.4
|
26.2
|
24.8
|
|
Flop Raise %
|
7.06
|
8.1
|
7.87
|
8.45
|
7.84
|
7.01
|
8
|
7.82
|
8.23
|
6.58
|
|
Flop Check Raise %
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
0.2
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
0.1
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
In order to show how similar the stats of these players are compared to the general population we calculated the Euclidian distance for every player at $.25/$.50 NL who has played at least 100,000 hands this year.
The distance was calculated using 7emenov’s stats as a baseline and was based on 6 stats (VP$IP, PFR, AFQ, Flop AFQ, Turn AFQ, River AFQ).
In simple terms, Euclidian distance looks at how far two points are from each other. When you measure the distance between two points with a ruler, that’s an example of Euclidian distance. In this example, however, we are measuring with a ruler in 6 dimensions. The principle is exactly the same as 2 dimensions — the higher the number, the greater difference in their play style. Here is the result from our analysis (671 players fit into our criteria):
As you can see, these 10 players are clustered in the lower left of the chart. They are virtually identical. The biggest distance within the bot group is Daergy at 2.39. The next closest player has a distance of 32.94.
As further evidence, here is a comparison of two of the players using PTR Premium. Again you can see that there is almost no difference in their play style.
Stake Changes
Each of these accounts exhibited a remarkably similar pattern in moving down in stakes. As you can see from this chart, they all moved down at nearly the exact same time. This is strong evidence that these accounts were being coordinated by single person / group of people.
|
7emenov
|
bakabar
|
craizer
|
mvra
|
nakseon
|
kozzin
|
demidou
|
koldan
|
Daergy
|
feidmanis
|
|
| $1/$2 NLH Last Played |
1/26/10
|
1/27/10
|
1/24/10
|
1/26/10
|
1/12/10
|
1/26/10
|
1/20/10
|
1/25/10
|
1/26/10
|
1/27/10
|
| $0.5/$1 NLH Last Played |
2/19/10
|
2/13/10
|
2/14/10
|
2/13/10
|
2/13/10
|
2/19/10
|
2/14/10
|
2/14/10
|
2/14/10
|
2/19/10
|
| $0.25/$0.5 NLH Last Played |
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/15/10
|
7/15/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
Unique Betting Pattern
Another damning piece of evidence is that each of these accounts exhibits a very unique and easily verifiable betting pattern. When they’re in the big blind in an un-raised pot (limpers only) and it’s checked to them on the flop, they will either shove all-in or bluff by making a non all-in bet. If the bot’s bet is called or raised, the bot will always fold to any further aggression.
You can view an example of this betting pattern here.
This betting pattern is quite useful in identifying these bots because it means that the bots “fold to flop raise” statistic will always be 100%. If the bot has a good hand, it will always shove. If it decides to bluff, it will take the “bet and shut down” line. We looked at how the 10 accounts in question acted in this situation and in the 1898 times they were raised after betting in the big blind, they folded 1890 times (99.6%). Seven of the Eight outliers occurred in 2008-2009 and may be due to testing their algorithms / manual play.
Conclusion
Bots are playing under these account names. PTR believes it is essential for these types of situations to be pursued actively by the poker community in order to help keep our games safe and fair. We urge PokerStars to immediately freeze these accounts and use the evidence presented here to assist in their investigation. A big nod goes to the folks over at intellipoker who identified a large portion of this group in April and to the 2+2′ers whose thread brought this to our attention.
For more information on PTR’s bot detection technology, click here.
K
fupeg, I very rarely chat but that doesn’t mean I’m a bot – I’m just a very bad one-handed typist. now when they enable audio…. that’ll be another story. but it’s hard to believe that stars would use 10 bots to fill tables when they have a hundred thousand players. seriously those numbers are skewed. it sounds more like individuals who have worked out a a strategy that they think will be profitable. I’m not saying that stars is morally above it. casinos have long employed people to fill up half empty games. But a person on payroll is different from a bot. and with more than 100k players at any given time, do they REALLLY NEED ten extra players to increase their profits?
Kestrel…I never said nor do I believe PS is involved in any way shape or form in the scheme. I just said it is in their interest that as many players pay rake as possible. They are making boat loads of money…so running a bot schemee at the nl 50 would be beyond rediculous.
It is one thing to rarely chat btw…quite another to NEVER CHAT. When someone says nh for example…the proper thing to do is say ty.
Hi, I am voluntary banned from chat. I sent an e-mail to the PSsupport to do that. You can’t see these ban anywhere. There is no hint.
But at least, I just play 2k Hands in a month, not 10k ;-)
Good article!
Is there also consistency in timing. How many seconds it does take to make a move?
i was just watching a replay of a hand of craizer, and i see 2 more of those nicks sitting on the same table….that means that if theyre bots, they sit at least 3 on the same table
so what are they going to do for the players that played the bots
probably nothing but you never know. why hasn’t pokerstars said anything yet about this
fwiw PTR has not proven they are bots, only that they follow the same algorithm. If someone in a sweatshop somewhere (like the Chinese DoN one) just gave a bunch of people simple algorithms to follow, it could be seperate people clicking the buttons thus not bots and completely legal by the Pokerstars TOS. The real problem here is that shortstacking can be beaten by bots. Shortstack tables have got to go (along with DoNs)
i also was checking some hands whit them and there where 2 of them in the same table in most of the hands.
Isn’t it more likely that PS isn’t involved, but that someone outside the company wrote an algorithm just to earn profit and VIP points? It doesn’t seem too unrealistic that in the near future there will be more advanced algorithms that have accounted for ways to skip detection.
Even if a computer program can earn 0.1bb/100 it would be profitable to use.
if I knew about these bots I would just try to send them broke rather than tell everyone about it. put them in my buddy list and bank it :)
PS is not involved.
ANd Kreb…yes some players have chat off. But if they play 1-2 million hands a year and NEVER chat…yes the odds of them being a bot ar not 100%, but the odds do shoot thru the roof.
I checked my stats vs. the bots head to head…and I turned a profit against them…I was all prepared to ask for my Money back. If they were still here…I’d kill them for more. But I would rather this crap be cleaned up!
PS has still not responded to my email demanding an explanation of what they r going to do about it btw!
How many more of these bots might there be? What’s stopping them from simply making 10 more accounts and continuing? I sure hope there are some serious repercussions for this. Just ridiculous.
Lack of chat isn’t a good indicator of botness – on FT I quite often have player and observer chat turned off (there’s not often much worth reading) so simply don’t see if there’s any chat going on. I’m sure there’s a similar option on Stars.
Given that Stars employs people to monitor for breaches of the rules, suspicious betting patterns, etc., how is it that it took a tip of from a 2+2 thread to expose these bots? Are they not taking cheating very seriously? Perhaps because it doesn’t hit their profits and they figure that, given scandals at other sites (e.g. UB) this won’t have any impact on their reputation?
poker sites dont care about that the want $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ thats the only thing see potkiller on absolute poker hahaha the dont care
Maybe im mission the point but is this really a big deal? I mean these bots are barely breakeven, not a really a threat at the table are they?
i heard they were saving up all those fpps to trade in for the porsche
Well my guess is that they will end up with nothing as Poker Stars can cancell the accounts and take any money and fpp’s left in those accounts. I would hope that all poker sites would monitor anyone playing this many hands even in a short period. I have looked at the number of games the highest ranked players play and it is crazy how much they actually play. But it should be fairly easy for the sites to determine what is possible by average (well above average) play verse insane hands/tournaments played over a period of time. Like # of hours days played in a row and ip addresses for players.
Also I would think that a programmer worth anything could build in a bit of variance in the game play so to avoid be suspected of being a bot. As to the chat thing a simple random chat could be programed as well – it might not answer but could initiate some form of response.
Really I don’t think it would be Poker Stars that did this but possibly someone working for them I could see that. It would be crazy for them to even consider and they make so much from the rake and fees they collect anyways.
People complain about conspiracy therories with online poker but the fact is if you watch or play much live poker that Bad Beats happen.
But also for now I would love to be able to figure out if I’m playing against a bot with this simple game plan they use now! As with any good player you got to change how you play over time and these bots don’t at this time.
Huh?? These are POKERSTARS bots…. They have amazing BOT detection and THESE were so OBVIOUS (out in the open) that a guy on 2+2 figures it out with only using PTR! Stars is the by far the most corupt site…
This is exactly why it is necessary that PTR really examines Stars closely, they should monitor their RNG for fairness, etc… I have over 3 million hands and 13,000 tourney’s on Stars and to say their RNG is totally random is absurd!
The money they earned/stole should be send back to us regular players.
Yea, Pokerstars has been stealing billions, please return to us players!!!
maybe they do? I got compensated over 100 bucks for playing in don’s vs a cheating group.
there are a bit more than that….right, deerbox
I love how all the accounts stopped playing after PTR blew the whistle . . . not that I play on PS much anymore, but this has been quite a sensational development for any online poker player to observe!
Are there any legit site anymore. When I play on these big sites, I can’t help but feel there is some form of cheating going on. I don’t see how a site as big as pokerstars can monitor it 100% 24/7 and guarantee players safety. I don’t think any of us will either until some sort of legislative act is passed and we can get some of these servers on US soil and they are being monitored by some sort of company in the US