Table Finder
After being tipped off by this thread on 2+2, PTR has used its bot detection technology to find overwhelming evidence that 10 accounts on PokerStars are being run by computer programs (and not humans). Collectively, they have played at least 8,320,121 hands at the $.25/$.50, $.5/$1 and $1/$2 NL levels, generated $186,572 in rake, and made $57,839 in profit (not including VIP benefits). These accounts are still active and have been observed playing on PokerStars today.
After being tipped off by this We urge PokerStars to freeze their accounts immediately.
The following 10 accounts stand accused:
| 7emenov | bakabar | craizer |
| mvra | nakseon | kozzin |
| demidou | koldan | Daergy | feidmanis |
UPDATE: All 10 of these accounts have been frozen by Poker Stars and are no longer active.
Background
In the initial 2+2 thread, Malloc took screenshots from PTR and noted the shocking statistical similarities and consistency in the way 3 accounts moved up and down in stakes. PokerTableRatings has decided to help the effort by analyzing our data. We have found 10 separate accounts that showed remarkable similarities based upon three major factors.
• Extremely similar stats across the board.
• A changing of stakes played on exactly the same day or within a few days of each other.
• A unique and easily identifiable betting pattern from the big blind in unraised pots.
The Evidence
Statistical Similarities
Each of these accounts has essentially the same stats across the board. These stats are much too similar to be explained by mere chance. Here is a table showing the remarkably similar stats for each account. This data can be seen by anyone using PTR Premium.
|
7emenov
|
bakabar
|
craizer
|
mvra
|
nakseon
|
kozzin
|
demidou
|
koldan
|
Daergy
|
feidmanis
|
|
| VP$IP |
9.04
|
9.03
|
9.00
|
8.99
|
9.01
|
8.93
|
9.00
|
8.95
|
8.94
|
8.88
|
| PFR |
8.99
|
8.98
|
8.95
|
8.95
|
8.96
|
8.88
|
8.96
|
8.90
|
8.89
|
8.82
|
| 3Bet |
7.06
|
6.94
|
7.02
|
7.10
|
7.05
|
6.92
|
6.97
|
7.23
|
6.89
|
6.58
|
|
7emenov
|
bakabar
|
craizer
|
mvra
|
nakseon
|
kozzin
|
demidou
|
koldan
|
Daergy
|
feidmanis
|
|
|
Small Blind VP$IP
|
21.3
|
21.2
|
21.3
|
21.4
|
21.4
|
21.3
|
21.0
|
21.3
|
21.0
|
20.4
|
|
Big Blind VP$IP
|
19.1
|
19.1
|
18.9
|
18.8
|
19.1
|
18.9
|
19.1
|
19.0
|
18.8
|
18.9
|
|
Early VP$IP
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.2
|
|
Middle VP$IP
|
4.5
|
4.4
|
4.5
|
4.5
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
|
Cutoff VP$IP
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.5
|
6.4
|
6.3
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.5
|
6.5
|
|
Button VP$IP
|
9.8
|
9.7
|
9.8
|
10.0
|
9.8
|
9.4
|
9.8
|
9.8
|
9.7
|
9.5
|
|
Small Blind PFR
|
21.2
|
21.1
|
21.2
|
21.3
|
21.3
|
21.2
|
21.0
|
21.2
|
21.0
|
20.3
|
|
Big Blind PFR
|
18.9
|
18.8
|
18.6
|
18.5
|
18.8
|
18.6
|
18.8
|
18.8
|
18.5
|
18.6
|
|
Early PFR
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.3
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.2
|
|
Middle PFR
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.5
|
4.5
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
4.4
|
|
Cutoff PFR
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.5
|
6.4
|
6.3
|
6.4
|
6.4
|
6.5
|
6.5
|
|
Button PFR
|
9.8
|
9.7
|
9.7
|
9.9
|
9.7
|
9.4
|
9.7
|
9.8
|
9.7
|
9.4
|
|
Small Blind 3bet
|
8.3
|
8.1
|
8.4
|
8.4
|
8.3
|
8.1
|
8.1
|
8.7
|
8.0
|
7.6
|
|
Big Blind 3bet
|
12.6
|
12.4
|
12.3
|
12.5
|
12.3
|
12.3
|
12.5
|
12.9
|
12.4
|
11.6
|
|
Early 3bet
|
2.6
|
2.7
|
2.4
|
2.8
|
2.3
|
2.2
|
2.1
|
2.8
|
2.9
|
2.6
|
|
Middle 3bet
|
3.1
|
3.1
|
3.2
|
3.1
|
3.1
|
3.1
|
3.0
|
3.2
|
3.1
|
3.1
|
|
Cutoff 3bet
|
3.9
|
3.8
|
3.8
|
3.9
|
3.8
|
3.7
|
3.9
|
3.9
|
3.7
|
3.6
|
|
Button 3bet
|
4.8
|
4.6
|
4.8
|
5.1
|
4.8
|
4.7
|
4.6
|
4.9
|
4.6
|
4.8
|
|
Saw Flop
|
5.1
|
5.0
|
5.0
|
5.1
|
5.1
|
5.0
|
5.1
|
5.1
|
5.0
|
5.2
|
|
Flop Agg. Frequency
|
34.1
|
34.3
|
33.9
|
34.4
|
34.3
|
33.6
|
33.9
|
34.3
|
35.3
|
32.5
|
|
Flop Fold %
|
92.9
|
91.8
|
92.1
|
91.1
|
92.2
|
92.9
|
92.0
|
91.9
|
91.7
|
93.4
|
|
Flop Call %
|
0.0
|
0.1
|
0.0
|
0.5
|
0.0
|
0.1
|
0.0
|
0.3
|
0.1
|
0.0
|
|
Flop Bet %
|
25.9
|
26.1
|
25.7
|
25.8
|
25.4
|
25.7
|
25.7
|
25.4
|
26.2
|
24.8
|
|
Flop Raise %
|
7.06
|
8.1
|
7.87
|
8.45
|
7.84
|
7.01
|
8
|
7.82
|
8.23
|
6.58
|
|
Flop Check Raise %
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
0.2
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
0.1
|
0.0
|
0.0
|
In order to show how similar the stats of these players are compared to the general population we calculated the Euclidian distance for every player at $.25/$.50 NL who has played at least 100,000 hands this year.
The distance was calculated using 7emenov’s stats as a baseline and was based on 6 stats (VP$IP, PFR, AFQ, Flop AFQ, Turn AFQ, River AFQ).
In simple terms, Euclidian distance looks at how far two points are from each other. When you measure the distance between two points with a ruler, that’s an example of Euclidian distance. In this example, however, we are measuring with a ruler in 6 dimensions. The principle is exactly the same as 2 dimensions — the higher the number, the greater difference in their play style. Here is the result from our analysis (671 players fit into our criteria):
As you can see, these 10 players are clustered in the lower left of the chart. They are virtually identical. The biggest distance within the bot group is Daergy at 2.39. The next closest player has a distance of 32.94.
As further evidence, here is a comparison of two of the players using PTR Premium. Again you can see that there is almost no difference in their play style.
Stake Changes
Each of these accounts exhibited a remarkably similar pattern in moving down in stakes. As you can see from this chart, they all moved down at nearly the exact same time. This is strong evidence that these accounts were being coordinated by single person / group of people.
|
7emenov
|
bakabar
|
craizer
|
mvra
|
nakseon
|
kozzin
|
demidou
|
koldan
|
Daergy
|
feidmanis
|
|
| $1/$2 NLH Last Played |
1/26/10
|
1/27/10
|
1/24/10
|
1/26/10
|
1/12/10
|
1/26/10
|
1/20/10
|
1/25/10
|
1/26/10
|
1/27/10
|
| $0.5/$1 NLH Last Played |
2/19/10
|
2/13/10
|
2/14/10
|
2/13/10
|
2/13/10
|
2/19/10
|
2/14/10
|
2/14/10
|
2/14/10
|
2/19/10
|
| $0.25/$0.5 NLH Last Played |
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/15/10
|
7/15/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
7/16/10
|
Unique Betting Pattern
Another damning piece of evidence is that each of these accounts exhibits a very unique and easily verifiable betting pattern. When they’re in the big blind in an un-raised pot (limpers only) and it’s checked to them on the flop, they will either shove all-in or bluff by making a non all-in bet. If the bot’s bet is called or raised, the bot will always fold to any further aggression.
You can view an example of this betting pattern here.
This betting pattern is quite useful in identifying these bots because it means that the bots “fold to flop raise” statistic will always be 100%. If the bot has a good hand, it will always shove. If it decides to bluff, it will take the “bet and shut down” line. We looked at how the 10 accounts in question acted in this situation and in the 1898 times they were raised after betting in the big blind, they folded 1890 times (99.6%). Seven of the Eight outliers occurred in 2008-2009 and may be due to testing their algorithms / manual play.
Conclusion
Bots are playing under these account names. PTR believes it is essential for these types of situations to be pursued actively by the poker community in order to help keep our games safe and fair. We urge PokerStars to immediately freeze these accounts and use the evidence presented here to assist in their investigation. A big nod goes to the folks over at intellipoker who identified a large portion of this group in April and to the 2+2′ers whose thread brought this to our attention.
For more information on PTR’s bot detection technology, click here.
3
8
I Would rather not have all this info freely available i have to say, Fair enough PTR can talk to stars about these things but why let everyone know peoples exact stats its not necessary just find them and ban them dont publish full stats for everyone.
cz sup
This shows that bots can and do win at the 200 nl level. I don’t like the fact that it’s happening, or that it could destroy on line poker. When enough people see one can make 60k, they have a vested interest in seeing if they can do it and a % of them will see if they can.
Another issue I wonder about is if there are enough bots out there, say 5/10 on a full ring table, then they good feed hole card info with one another or with a live player running the bots.
It bugs me PTR can report this stuff but is too lazy to fix their annoying ass trantortroll spamming problem
But look at the differences in their profit timelines. Some of them aren’t winning at all!
just play the deepstack tables and they dont have a chance..
PTR GUYS YOU GUYS SHOULDNT EVER POST THINGS LIKE THIS PUBLICALLY until AFTER you privately notifying the sites and after they have taken action and frozen the accounts. Making a public announcement before the sites are aware of this gives the offending accounts some opportunity to withdraw some of their ill gotten funds which stars would have otherwise sent back to the players affected.
Other than that, keep up the good work policing the games
This will only scare newcomers to poker away from the game, unless Pokerstars make a full refund to all accounts affected
PokerStars was already notified about these player names a while ago, but PokerStars “cleared” their names and said everything was OK. Sadly, letting the public know is the only way to get the poker sites to take any real action.
sick stuff, ban them all, refund all money…
The bots were implemented by pokerstars as a means of additional profit…well done you fucking scalawags
Rigged!
What’s their “botscore” lol
PTR is doing a hell of a job getting players on their side
На месте Руководства PokerStars я бы послал Вас НАХУЙ открытым текстом, за МАЙНИНГ и продажу конфиденциальной информации. Так что, с начало подумайте над собой прежде чем указывать им что делать!
stars dont give a f#¤%. they only want ppl to rake hands.
It is also illegal to buy hands, and more than 10000 have already!!!!!!!! that is not fear either
fair of course
never going to play on stars now
Thats only a handfull bots, any neural net based bot with other stats still play and win.
5 weeks ago any at 2+2 swear no..no a bot cant beat NL50 :)
Noone can expect that a billion $ industry is without cheaters…and there are more than the most believe.
what a bunch of conspiracy theory thinkers, 90% of 2+2 forums are kids and morons, if u believe all this stuff u should never play online again otherwise u are a fool, if not then man up and play
Its getting worser and worser with onlinepoker these days…
dontbluffthis876 is a moron
don’tbluff…ur the idiot and fool. The evidence against these being Bots is OVERWHELMING. You sound like one of those people reason and logic mean nothing too. BTW, I have never met ayone who DOES not believe conspiracies exist. Take 9/11. You either believe the offcial conspiracy theory of 19 highjackers…or you believe in an alternate conspiracy theory. Your such a an insecure tool you just buy into all the labels…and would hate to be labled a “conspiracy theorist” as if that is something to be ashamed about. The Powers that be would love 6 billion more of you on the planet!
Наноман ты что ебанутый на всю голову? ты хочешь воевать против ботов в сетке, долбоебина? иди счас попробуй в шахматишки рубанись с ботом, проверь шарит он или нет
Sick, TY to PTR.
the only reason someone wouldn’t want this stuff made public is if they themselves are cheating or would like to attempt to cheat in the future. There is no good reason to keep this info quiet. If info like this is kept quiet, then who knows what’s happening behind the scenes. We don’t need other people to tell us what we should and shouldn’t be able to see. If someone believes that someone else is cheating, IT IS THEIR RIGHT TO INFORM ANYONE THEY LIKE OF THEIR OPINION. ‘henners19′ -who’s side are you on you scum??
it appears that mostly low level or new players to the internet want to spend so much time on this stuff, it is is true, then they will deal with it, if there is real evidence, until then they are innocent,imo. the sites for sure would do something as it hurts their cause to make more money if bad publicity continues. i still say most of the people on these sites are kids and younger who believe most of what they read or are not doing very good themselves at online poker. however, there will always be some isolated situations when money involved and people looking for advantages, but still if you believe you are being cheated and its against you, would’nt it be a foolish to continue to play anywhere this is occuring. i been playing online for around 10years and would have more issues with colluding then playing vs a robot with limited thinking process.
fair enuff don’tbluff. Only thing is Poker Stars has shown in the past that they are reluctant to do anything if at all regarding matters like this. Ultimately…they lose money because of rake if they were to detect and seize bots/cheats. But yes…once it becomes public…it becomes a PR issue…and though they may do something about it…I firmly believe that they wish nobody woulda found out in the first place. They’re quite content to keep the status quo.
Many idiots like u say are qwik to believe anything, and buy into the “It’s rigged” BS conspiracy crap etc. But these numbers of these Bots speak for themselves.
Interesting as well…I was playign against these Bots last night…I did not see any today. After knowing/learning how the Bots play it was in my interest to keep them around…but I still emailed PS support demanding their removal b/c I am big about integrity of the game.
I do however now believe there are a lot more short stack bots out there. There are tons of players (mostly short-stacks)who NEVER talk/chat. I think that is a huge red-flag! Keep in mind they only need to break even in order to be able to make money thru the rewards program. If they can turn a profit tho….that is a huge swindle!
I think collusion is also a thing to worry about…esp. at higher levels. Maybe PS should not allow people to change their screen names like Full tilt’s policy?
“The bots were implemented by pokerstars as a means of additional profit…well done you fucking scalawags”
True, they can running this bots for additional profits, that was my first thought.
Shame @ pokerstars
question, if i am playing against a bot, should I start pushing bottom 80% of hands and folding top 20% of hands. I mean come on, if I am that unpredictable the bots cannot read me right?
Sometimes I’m about to ban trantor but he says something that makes me laugh just the littlest bit and I don’t do it.
fupeg, since when did pokerstars allow their players to change screen names?
U use to be able to change ur name every 6 months. Has that changed?
Check on prokkets too. Word spreads that he is also a bot.
“fupeg said: U use to be able to change ur name every 6 months. Has that changed?”
That would be Partypoker, not pokerstars.
check manila re stats he is off the charts he is either a bot or a major genius setting up the poker world for a major payday by pretending to play bad SHUT HIM DOWN for his own good
ATeby, sit84, PbIcb, ,AlexanderPAB, simply_tsar, i_shall_beat, M.KBAKuH, BFG9K, xomrkk, KX_NSK, B0CC, matushka57
all shortstackers from novosibirsk playing 1/2-5/10 at the same time onthe same tables. Stars said they were not colluding or bots,but it would not surprise me if they were.
I guess I have to say this again, since no one fucking listens.
ONLINE………..POKER….. IS……RIGGED……..AND……..NOT…….SAFE…….TO…….PLAY…….PLAY…….AT…….YOUR…….LOCAL…….CASINO.
DONT HAVE A LOCAL CASINO TO PLAY AT? FUCK OFF THEN
please investigate what xg8520 said 2 posts above
Fear not, PTR collective, I have it on good authority that Ricardo and Randy have been assigned the task of eliminating bots.
Sick read on the bots. I’d make it a point to go to all their tables and let everyone including fishes know when the bots are bluffing :D
Just want to add that this is the main reason why shortstacking should be disallowed while playing poker. The shorter you play the more poker becomes a math game which means it easier to get an edge with a good algorithm.
50bb should be the minimum!
DO NOT PUBLIC ….please tell that pokerstars …..
Awesome job. Don’t listen to people saying not to make this public. Fair disclosure. Swim at your own risk. I will echo sentiment that the sites will never make this stuff public and likely will not take action unless you guys do. Thanks PTR.
These bots’ style of play was so profitable it’s insane. For example they played more hands in SB than BB, check raised 0% on flop and folded 92% on the flop, even tho those bots have a vpip of 9%. Imagine if the programmer of those bots was better at poker/put more effort into his bots…
the botscore comments are hysterial..lol
Looks to me like pokerstars got caught filling up games by ptr and had to remove or change the names until they are caught again ..repeat and rinse
just play micro
Use bot to play poker is just a different way of making money. From my point of view, its the same to what PTR website is doing. Non of my businese, and PTR neither. I dont think PTR should do these analysis to ask Pokerstars to freeze these accounts.